Stroke Economy

This week, Richard & Fiona discuss the concept of the 'stroke economy' in Transactional Analysis, including the importance of social recognition, how strokes are exchanged in everyday interactions, and the impact of different types of strokes on individuals. 

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Transcript

0:09

Good day, you fantastic folks, here we go again. With yet another episode of Therapy Natters, where two psychotherapists natter away about therapy stuff. I'm Richard Nicholls and my partner in crime, as always is Fiona Biddle. Hello, Fiona. How are tricks today? Hi, Richard. Yeah, good. Good. It's sunny Is it? Oh, it's No. Oh, lovely. Cold, but it's lovely and sunny. I got fog. I'm up on a hill, so maybe maybe it's just the, the maybe I'm in the cla Well, yeah. Wait, is that what fog is really? Yeah, of course it is. It's just a, a just ground cloud. Ground cloud. I like those words, they go well together. Ground cloud. I love words. Our words are lovely, aren't they? I'd be, I'd be stuck without them. Certainly as a podcaster, I'd be absolutely lost without them. But as a therapist, can we work without words? A part of me says yes, but a part of me says, ooh, not in the same way. Can we do therapy without words? I mean there's body psychotherapy, but that's still Psychotherapy. I was talking to somebody the other day about content free therapy, which is, for those who don't know, it's where the client isn't really telling you their story, but they will still be using words to express their feelings, they just don't want or for whatever reason can't, tell you what it's about. But we always say we don't really need the about anyway. We want the feelings. We want the process, not the story. Absolutely. Sometimes the story might be so overwhelming that it sets their therapy back. it can really get in the way. Yeah. Yeah, like we use things like EMDR, bilateral stimulation, just just sit with the thought. You don't need to tell me about it, you just need to have it in mind. And we'll work with it, and we'll deal with it. We teach emotional regulation skills and we bring it down. And I quite like doing that. It's always a surprise to clients when, after doing some work like that, the next session they'll come in and they'll talk about, they will maybe go into the story a little bit and you can see the look on their faces as if to go, Oh, that's just a thought now. That's just a memory now. That doesn't have any emotion behind it. It's just something that happened. And there's almost a quizzical, well, I've had this problem for years and I've just overcome it just like that. No, it wasn't just like that. It was six months of emotional regulation training first, you know. Yeah. And some clients can't easily get the fact that we don't need the story. so that has to be got through before they can really get there. They think you must need to know what happened. and I think some therapists think that too. If you can't, uh, yeah, if you can't actually tell me what's, what's going on for you, then I can't help you. Oh, yeah, you can. Whoa. I overheard a therapist talking about how upset they were at the idea that they might have damaged people early on in their career. Because in theory, yeah, they might have done. They might have set somebody's, therapy back a little bit by asking them to go too deep, too quick. Because they weren't experienced. They didn't know. They think, oh. That's a training issue. But, and this is what was brought up in the group, that a lot of psychotherapists aren't trauma trained. In their training. they're not, and you never know what a client's going to bring. They might say that they're coming, you know, when they send you an email or they call you on the phone, you ask something about what it's about to make sure that you can work with them, but they don't tend to tell you the whole picture then. They quite often wait till they check it out if they can trust you, Yes. the whole picture. So clients can be bringing all sorts of things that you're not actually qualified to work with.§ deal with that. Yeah. And whether that's just good supervision, or it's having that ability to go this is so far outside of my scope of competence I need to refer this person on. But that might be a rejection to them. Because they've plucked up the courage after maybe even months of therapy to go right, this is the real reason I'm here. Now that I've built a relationship with you. And you go, Oh, in that case I can't help you. Can't work with that. work with you, go away. No, yeah, No, you're you're broken. You're damaged goods. Get out. Part of the training of a therapist has to be how to react, how to respond when something comes up that you're not expecting and how to, how to deal, But not, saying, well I can't reject this person because they've got a problem with rejection therefore I've got to keep them on and I've got to work with it. No, that's not going to be a good yeah, that's right. We know from so much research over the last 50 years that the biggest component to somebody doing well in therapy is that you've got a good relationship with your therapist. And it's that interaction that needs to be the focus for a lot of people. Because we're social creatures. Everything, pretty much, is about that back and forth between people. That is what makes us feel good or feel bad. It's a bit reductionist, I suppose, but I think that is at the foundation of a lot of people's issues. Yes, I mean that word, reductionist, tends to be used as a negative but, getting down to the nitty gritty, surely that's a good thing isn't it? One of the things that I say most as a supervisor, to my supervisees when they're talking about such things as they don't quite know what to do or how to handle a particular situation with the client. I say, have you spoken to them about it? Wow. often they go Well, no. I say, well, talk to them about it. Get their perspective. Mm, And if you've got the relationship set up, then let's say they bring up something that you're not qualified to work with. Let's say it was a PTSD situation or something, and the therapist didn't have training to work with PTSD. They bring this up. If you've got the good relationship, you can talk to them about the fact that you haven't got training to work with it. mm, and how could that possibly be actually a rejection? It's not because you just don't have training, mm. So, You talk to them. Mm. And vice versa. So many times. I'll, see questions on forums that people will be asking about therapy. And the answer is almost always underneath that, which is, you should speak to your therapist about that. That's the answer. And a good therapist will listen to whatever it is that query is. Because, that's the secret. Communication. Respectful communication. It makes the world go round. It really does. But if there's two ways to take something from somebody, and one way makes you feel bad, and one makes you feel okay, We can probably assume that the way the person meant was the one that was to make you feel okay. Yes and if somebody is setting out to not be nice to you, to you, then should they really be given the power to do so? No, if it's, absolutely. if something that somebody said is designed to hurt, then there is no need for it to hurt. Yeah, it's like somebody throwing a cricket ball at you, but you see it coming, you know, you've got chance to step out of the way. I'm not going to get hit by that. You, you threw that. That's not on me. And you just look at it on the floor and go, is that your cricket ball? Because I'm not picking it up. I wish it was easier done than said. That's the thing. But everything starts with conscious awareness until it becomes a skill. Indeed, and yes, of course, sometimes those cricket balls do land and then they hurt, but then can pick that ball up from the ground and, I was going to say throw it back now, not throw it back, give it back. And say, this is yours. Yeah. This is your stuff, not mine. then the healing will be that much better. Because there was no reason for it to hit in the first place. Yeah, yeah. And that's the underlying principles with Transactional Analysis, isn't it? That it's all about the transactions in relationships with people, back and forth. Yeah. And that's what we want to talk a little bit about today. It is. We've talked about TA before And mentioned that it's full of jargon. And they call this the stroke economy. A stroke, in this context, is a unit of social recognition. So, for example, if you see a colleague walking along the corridor and you say good morning, you've delivered a stroke. So then if a salesperson in Curry's smiles at you, they've given you a stroke. So this happens constantly, all the time, because it's social interaction, social recognition, but they can be positive or negative. So those examples are positive. But if your colleague, as you've said Good morning, they huff, walk past you, and don't say anything. That's a negative stroke. And if you ignored that smile of the salesperson and simply asked. Where are the iPads? That would be a negative stroke that you were giving back to that salesperson. See what I mean? Sort of the complimentary idea of these things. And the word economy comes in in terms of the fact that we we want to at least have a neutral balance in our stroke bank. So the same in, same out. We want it to be at least neutral that we're not giving out more than we're getting in. Let's take that first example just that little bit further. if you say Good morning to your colleague and they say Morning. You carry on, it's one all. If you say, Good morning, how are you? And they say, Good morning. And walk on. You're one down. you've given two, and they've given one. Mmm, yeah. Not suggesting that in general life, we count our strokes. Don't have a, there's not a little app a tally. on your phone to log all the strokes you get and the ones that you give. This is about a general feeling that you get as to where you are. And, I guess that feeling is you feel okay if your economy is okay. If you're in deficit, you don't feel so good. And if you've given a lot, you can feel good for giving a lot. But if you haven't got back, then it's not gonna feel so nice. Yeah. I wonder if there's a way of when you give a stroke To feel some benefit from it. So that you can feel as if you're getting one even when you're not. To know, I've added to that person's strokes list today. You can choose to give more strokes and, you know, make people's days better. Yeah, I'm just thinking about putting a little post it note on a bus. Just with a smiley face on it for somebody to see. On the seat in front of you on the bus. So you get off and the next person gets on and goes, Oh, there's a little smiley face on a post it note on the seat in front. That's quite nice. But you're getting nothing back from that other than that little bit of feeling that I've made somebody smile. But, you know, you can give strokes just thinking of getting on a bus. You can say Thank you to the driver Yeah more likely when you get off. You can smile at people even in London, you know, you Well, do I was just thinking that because I need to buy some train tickets. Dawn wants to go to the Tim Burton experience because she likes Tim Burton. So we're gonna go and see that be quite good What I'm gonna do, I'm gonna get a post it note, and I'm gonna write, Do not look on the reverse of this post it note. And I'm gonna stick it somewhere. And on the other side of the post it note, I'm gonna write, You rebel, I like you. I'm gonna do that, because that's funny. I like that and it'll make people smile. Won't it? so great. Yeah Um, I'm, I'm, I'm chortling to myself now. And no one's even seen it yet. One that I've done a few times is left the pound coin in the trolley. Oh what a lovely thing to do. Yeah. Just think that whoever gets there next, they go Oh! I've got a pound! Yeah. So that's a, that's a nice one, but most of the time you'd be doing it deliberately. So going back to the smiling at people on trains, you can do it. You can smile at people in the street. I mean, pick your time and place, but generally, even London, you can do it. You can talk to people. It's all right. If they don't give you a stroke back, so what? That's not what you're doing it for. You're doing it to give out Mm, One particular thing to be wary of is fake strokes or counterfeit strokes is the phrase that they use and this is a lovely jargony bit. They call the process, marshmallow throwing because they're so soft. And Why marshmallow? oh goodness knows they're American. It doesn't have the effect that it was intended to have. So, the example that I read on this was in the creative arts where lovies flamboyantly throw out compliments. When it's obvious that they're not genuine. So that's something to watch out for that any strokes you're getting are genuine. So the idea of salesman came to mind then. How often you do get salespeople who give you fake strokes. Of Oh you're a very discerning buyer. no Yes. that's, that's a fake stroke as counterfeit marshmallow throwing. Yeah. So watch out for that, but also the other side of it is not to presume that something's counterfeit. Hmm. because of your own process. Yes, because we don't know somebody else's social skills. We really don't. could be either way. It could be that, that you get something that you feel isn't genuine because of your stuff. So my mother, if she got a compliment for her cooking, she would feel that that was a marshmallow because she just didn't have the confidence. So she thought people were just being nice. Oh, they're just being nice, rather than taking it as a genuine compliment. And I see that in therapy a little bit as well. That once we've got a good relationship, a client will say, because they feel vulnerable enough, or close enough, and they're torn because they think a little bit, well the only reason you're saying that is because I'm paying you. You're only being nice to me because it's your job. You don't want to be nice to me, and you don't actually like me. And they'll say that, usually, when they suspect I do like them. And I'm not just being nice to them because it's my job. It's the other way round. I'm doing the job because I want to be nice to them. It's that way round. But I'll challenge you on that a little bit. As a therapist, you don't have to like your clients and in a Oh yeah. they shouldn't really know the difference, Yes. Yeah. that's a tricky one. It is, that's a challenge for a lot of people. Yes, not for all therapists, because I think there's a certain temperament, certain type of person that becomes a therapist, but we're going to have clients who it will be hard to give a stroke to, because there's something about them, either because of transference, it reminds you of somebody else because of stereotypes or something, or genuinely, They're talking about their opinions and their values, and it is poles apart from you. Yeah. You've gotta be okay with that. They're still coming to you for help. They want some help with something. It deserves a reward, it deserves a stroke. Yeah. And we, we talk a lot about we're looking at the person, not their behaviour, which is sort of quite easy to separate. Well, it's not easy, but easier to separate than the person and their values. As you say, if somebody came along, who was, A Nazi, and yes, I was going for the extreme right wing, then it's harder because we're human beings. It's harder to separate that out from their essence as a person than it is a behaviour that you don't approve of. The other bit I want to get onto about strokes, is some rules that we tend to learn as children about how strokes work. Now this is, I mean, it comes from America, but it feels very British. So, anybody who's not British, would like to comment on how they feel their culture is on these. I'd be very interested to hear, but somebody's gone to the trouble of defining these five rules that we tend to learn in childhood. And the first sounds a bit weird, but bear with me. It's don't give strokes that you would like to give. Okay? Don't give strokes that you would like to give. that's a rule. Yeah. and this is, I think, it's, it's very British. I'll give you a personal example of this. So, this is when I was a teenager and a friend of mine, Sue, was hit by a car. We were out at youth club and Sue got hit by a car. It could have been a lot worse No serious injuries, and she wasn't kept in overnight at the hospital, although these days she would have been. So the next morning I went to see her and I took a bunch of daffodils. Yes. Her whole family laughed at me and said, What have you brought those for? Yeah. That was, I gave a stroke. I took my friend who had been injured and had gone through a traumatic experience. We, when I meet up with her now, we always talk about it. And I was ridiculed. Probably wasn't as bad as I felt, but I felt bad because that was a real negative stroke for me. And when I think about it, even though it's something we don't tend to talk about, there is something about having to hold back. And not give strokes and sometimes it's for a fear of getting it wrong I was talking to somebody the other day who had a family member who was ill and I decided to give him some strokes about how he was doing in terms of how he was being strong, but there was that little bit of me that was wary that I might be getting this wrong. And it might be too much, but I went for it anyway. Because it no longer bothers me if I get ridiculed, because I think that's a defense mechanism from the other person's point of view. Recently there was a case where a friend had put themselves out for me. and I was aware that this rule could restrict how acceptable it was for me to be effusive in my thanks. So, in this case, I carefully crafted my words, said them, and then left. Okay, yeah. So I just didn't, didn't give him any chance to respond. Okay. here you are, off I'm go, I'm gone. Okay. Yeah, I get that. That makes sense. broke that, I broke that rule knowing what I was doing. So, it's just something to think about. So the second one is, don't ask for strokes that you would like to receive. Now, Yeah. I think that's clearer to people. It goes along with that children shouldn't be spoilt. That don't be too nice to a baby or a child because they're going to be spoilt if you give them too much love, too much praise. Spoiler! That's not true. yeah, spoiler, they're not spoilt. can't give a baby or a child too much love. that's right. going back to the marshmallow throwing, Mmm, If you are giving strokes to a child that aren't genuine, It can feel patronising. or it could lead to all sorts of trouble. if you're constantly telling, a child that they're the best person in the history of the world. Yeah. But you can say, you're the best person in the history of the world to me. Because I love you so much, you mean the world to me. That's okay. So there's a sort of balance there. Yeah, I think we see it a lot with clients who are struggling in relationships, usually marriages, but it could be work, relationships in general, where they're not getting the strokes that they want, they feel they can't ask for them. Very often the person Let's say it's a husband and wife, either way round, one is sitting there saying in their heads, Stroke me! Yeah. And the other one has no idea. Yeah. but we have that rule of don't ask, The games people play. which is the name of the book. Ye s. So you can ask for strokes. Now, I mean, it's, again, it's being sensible about it. If you're working in an office job and your boss isn't giving you enough praise, it probably isn't a good idea to go and sit in their office and say, could you stroke me more please? It's not, even if you, even if you qualify what you mean, you work with the system that you're in, Yeah, but if I've made a nice meal for my wife, And I'm proud of it, but if I'm feeling that I need a stroke, and I will say. I'm quite pleased with this. Is it okay for you? If I'm getting nothing back, she's just eating it and talking about a day, which is fine. But yeah, I might want to hear her say, Wow, I can tell you work really hard on this. No, that's not a habit that we've got. That's not how Dawn talks to me. there's a lot that is unsaid. Oh, I don't need to say it. But maybe I need to hear it. maybe one of you needs to hear it from the other. And you shouldn't have to go to couples counselling to have that brought up. Don't let it get that far. Exactly. And going back to what I said about in supervision, did you talk to them about it? It's the same in a, in a relationship, Yeah. You can't expect anybody else to mind read But that strange background belief that, well, they should know. Yeah, they should know, I shouldn't have to ask. Yeah. The next one is Don't accept strokes that you would like to accept. So that's batting away a compliment, for example. Oh this old thing. That's exactly the phrase that's in there. Is it? Yeah. that's a lovely dress. Oh, this old thing. It's an exceptionally common process and it comes from this rule. The thing is, you can pretend to obey the rule, but not really obey it. So if, if you said to me, that's a nice dress, I could say, oh, this old thing, but actually take the stroke. Yes, of course you can. Yeah, it's the meaning behind it. It's what goes on on the inside. Yeah. you can play that. rule Yeah. out but actually take it. Yeah. Next one is just two more. Next one is don't reject strokes you don't want. Now I'll say that one again because it's with the double negative it's a little bit difficult. Don't reject strokes you don't want. So I'll give you an example. I regularly get strokes from people who see things that I've embroidered or crocheted, things like that. And some of that sort of makes me feel a little bit uncomfortable because I feel, I've just followed a pattern so there's nothing here that's of a stroke. So I don't feel that praise is appropriate. Okay. the rule is to not reject them if you don't want them. So you should accept things even if you don't want them. Oh, okay. Yeah. Now, when it's about my crocheted blanket or something, it hardly matters. It can matter if somebody is giving you strokes about an aspect of your person, yourself, your self that you don't want them to be commenting on. So, this can happen with people commenting on somebody's physical appearance, for example. Yeah. We're told we have to accept them Whereas you might actually want to challenge the person and say, please don't comment on X, Y, or Z. That's a sort of slightly deeper more important one in a sense. And I think society is changing on that. Well, certainly if it's a negative one. If somebody's critical. We've worked with weight loss clients for years, so we'll, we'll hear these stories a lot where somebody tries to motivate a member of their family, maybe, so they might say to their son or their daughter, Don't think you've had enough of those biscuits. Thinking that it will help, thinking it will motivate them to go, Oh, yeah, you're right, Dad. I'll put those biscuits down. I am gonna go and have an apple. But it doesn't. It makes them feel ashamed of wanting biscuits in the first place. Well, guess what that's gonna do? It's gonna make you want more biscuits because it's full of sugar and is a great distraction. And, they meant well. I They meant well, but then also you get the ones where people are giving positive strokes when the person can't receive them. So somebody who is being told you're beautiful, but they don't feel it. So that's a positive stroke that they don't want in that context as a therapist, you wanna dig below that. What's going on there? they will, perceive it as being marshmallow even if it's not. Yeah, I was thinking that earlier on, actually, when we were talking about that. Yeah. I have that experience a lot, as therapists. We all do. Such a shame. Yeah. And so the final one is don't give yourself strokes. oh sad What a sad rule. Don't blow your own trumpet. Don't be selfish. You said a phrase once. oh, did I, You said, What's the point in having a trumpet if you don't blow it? Oh, that was good. Well done, me. So, yeah, blow your trumpet. If you're proud of something, say so. Absolutely. Stroke your ego. It's fine. Yeah. within limits, isn't everything a balance? everything's a balance, but yes, do blow your own trumpet. And, you know, be selfish, we're all selfish, because we have to put ourselves first. Yeah, So, do give yourself strokes, and if your economy's down, find ways to give yourself strokes. And challenge that rule of you're not allowed to do that. Because if you have never done that, it will feel really, really arrogant. And it's something that I say to people all the time. That when they are starting to assert themselves, or they're starting to put themselves first, whether it's work, rest or play in all situations, if they've never done it before, that little bit of assertiveness, just setting up those little boundaries, will feel like absolute arrogance. Even though it's not, but it will genuinely feel I am the most nasty person in the world for saying No to that person. But you needed to say no to them so that you could say yes to yourself. And it will feel so arrogant. But it's good skill to learn, to turn that down. When you're stroking yourself, you need to be very careful not to throw marshmallows at yourself. Stop it, Richard. Sorry. So don't throw marshmallows at yourself. And be aware of counterfeit strokes that you can give yourself because it's too easy. You've got to be genuine. Counterfeit strokes with yourself. Yes, yeah. Meaningless. I'm just going through the motions here. That's, that's not good. And if that's how it feels, then lower the bar. Yes, indeed. And the final thing I wanted to say on it is about if you are in deficit, then one of the easiest ways to get strokes. And not an adaptive way is through social media. So. watch out for a tendency to, look for likes and comments on social media. And also to be suckered in by mass media, advertising politicians, things like that who manipulate and, you know, not saying necessarily in a bad way, but it can be, they manipulate people by stroking them. Yeah, yeah. So, we need to, we need to wrap up then. That's quite an interesting bit of psychoeducation for everybody today. I hope everybody found that useful. I find it interesting just to go, go over it again. I don't know about you, Richard, I just find it just, Yeah. the way that people work, isn't it? Yeah, we are a very complicated species. We will be back next week as always. Can't remember what we're talking about, but I can give you a sneaky peek if you like. Because I do have a tab open. got it open too. I've always got a tab open. Re evaluating the past. That's going to be quite We're going to be Well, that's going to take some editing down to get it to 30 minutes. I suspect it is. I look forward to it. Right, everybody. Leave you to it. Have a super duper week. Speak to you next time. Bye.