Making Projects

In this episode of Therapy Natters, Richard & Fiona take a deep dive into the art of getting things done, without losing your mind in the process!

From forgotten tax returns to browser tabs that double as to-do lists, they explore why our brains struggle with managing multiple projects and how to regain control.

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Transcript

Richard: 0:10

And hello to you! It's Therapy Natters time! The podcast series for anyone interested in personal development or mental health where two psychotherapists have a natter for half an hour about how to try and make some sense of all that stuff. We are Richard and Fiona. I'm Richard and this is Fiona. Hello Fiona!

Fiona: 0:32

Hello, in case you didn't work out which way round we were.

Richard: 0:36

Well, it's the 21st century.

Fiona: 0:37

We shouldn't presume.

Richard: 0:39

There's not many Fionas about anymore, is there?

Fiona: 0:42

what's happening to us? Are we dying off?

Richard: 0:45

I mean my son's 20 so I've not, um, I've not met any youngsters at primary school learning new names, but I wonder where Fiona sits on the new babies list, we spoke about names before.

Fiona: 0:56

it definitely has faded. I know one of the ones in my NCT classes, their baby was called Fiona, but that's still that baby's 32. So younger than that, I doubt.

Richard: 1:08

I bet it's still popular in Ireland.

Fiona: 1:10

Quite likely. And Scotland, it's a Gaelic name, so it's Scotland and Ireland.

Richard: 1:18

Yeah. Whereas Richard?

Fiona: 1:20

Fading.

Richard: 1:21

Yeah, I think so.

Fiona: 1:23

They'll come back, like, other names, like Wilf and Ethel.

Richard: 1:28

Eric? Ian? Yeah, there's a few babies around called Ian. Picked up probably from grandparents and things like that, which makes sense. We often name our kids after, after grandparents. That's why there's a lot of Erics around. And, you know, that might have been popular in the 50s and made a come back in the, in the, in the, in the 2000s. Well, Ian was probably quite popular in the 80s and it's gonna make a comeback now, so makes absolute sense. I often think that humans are strange, but we're not that strange really. I mean, a lot of us, we're trying to find something unique. We want to get a unique name for our

Fiona: 2:09

it also depends, well, depends on lots of things, but one of them is what your surname is. So, if you've got a silly surname like mine, you don't want to go for a silly first name.

Richard: 2:21

You've got a silly surname?

Fiona: 2:22

yes, it's horrible.

Richard: 2:24

Biddle?

Fiona: 2:25

Yes, yes.

Richard: 2:26

Doesn't sound silly to me

Fiona: 2:28

Well, I

Richard: 2:29

It's quite a sensible one.

Fiona: 2:30

yes, no, I don't, I don't like it. You know, you can't have something, um, really, weird and funky to go with that. I, in my value system, that doesn't work, so it needs to be something,

Richard: 2:41

Like Magenta Biddle.

Fiona: 2:42

Yes, that's a good example. Although I think, I've always thought that girls can have more bizarre names than boys, but again, that's just the way I think of it.

Richard: 2:52

And like so many things, it's a, it's a cultural thing that says, well, these are the rules. Isn't it nice to think outside the

Fiona: 3:00

Absolutely, but do you want to be putting that on a small child? I mean, I suggested for, for the newest Biddle, who is Rory, I suggested Jehossaphat, but it didn't go down well.

Richard: 3:10

I wonder why.

Fiona: 3:12

wonder why. I mean, he would have been absolutely fine going through school as Jehoshaphat Biddle, wouldn't he?

Richard: 3:18

What's the worst that could happen?

Fiona: 3:20

Yeah.

Richard: 3:21

We're being sarcastic, of course.

Fiona: 3:24

course.

Richard: 3:25

I wouldn't really think it would be a good idea to call a kid Jehoshaphat. But hey, I'm not going to judge. If you want to do that, you do that. What's the worst that could happen? The thing is, we can create labels for ourselves. And we know that nominative determinism exists. There was a really fun piece of research into names and how it ties up. And this is first names and how that tied up with their career later in life. Quite an easy thing to do. You just do a survey, ask them what they do for a living.

Fiona: 3:58

First names not surnames?

Richard: 3:59

Well, both, actually. So you get lots of nurses called Blood. There's a disproportionate amount of people in the nursing profession with the surname Blood. And also a disproportionate amount of dentists called Dennis or Denise.

Fiona: 4:15

I'd heard the surnames thing but not the first names.

Richard: 4:18

Yep, same with the first name. It's just that little thing in their mind that says I associate with this profession. It's only a slight nudge, but it's enough of a nudge to create a spike that shouldn't be there. All because their name began with Dee. That's all it took to steer somebody in a direction to make them choose one career over another. And if that happens, over something like that, what else are we doing with the labels that we give ourselves? We spoke about labels before, haven't we, with regards to personality disorders, I think, and things like neurodiversity and autism and ADHD and things like that. And it's difficult to not, as a therapist, sit on the fence with a lot of stuff that says I don't know what's good or what's not. I see the pros and cons in everything. But sometimes there is a need for some labels. because if there isn't a helpful label, then I think the child can create an unhelpful one for themselves. That if somebody is, let's use Autism as an example. They get given a label of Autistic. Well, to not have that label when they're young To not acknowledge that? To say, oh no, I don't believe in labels. You're just you. Well, that's fine. You go, thank you very much. My parents are accepting of me and I don't need a label. That's great. But if that kid knows that there is something different about me, they're going to create their own label and it might not be helpful. It might be people pleaser. It might be weirdo. It might be loser.

Fiona: 6:06

because other kids will be going back to the idea of the names, other kids will be putting the labels on if, if they're not put on from elsewhere, because that's what children do. I remember talking to my sons about, um, various times when there was a little bit of teasing going on. There was nothing ever extreme with them, but, you know, they would be teased for something. And it was, well, kids are going to find something to tease you about, so it might as well be this. Because it's going to be something. Because that's what children do.

Richard: 6:39

yeah. I guess what's important is how we recover from that. If our foundations are good enough because we were shown good attunement, good care, good love, good affection, less judgment within the family system, then they can thrive despite that. Hopefully.

Fiona: 7:00

Yeah.

Richard: 7:01

Gone off topic quite considerably. This isn't something we were going to be talking about today is it?

Fiona: 7:05

No. Well, we haven't gone on topic yet, so we, we haven't gone off it'cause we haven't gone on it, but that's okay. That's what a natter is.

Richard: 7:14

Absolutely. I'm very much a natterer. Maybe the title of the podcast could have been Therapy Tangents. I dunno,

Fiona: 7:22

Vaguely something to do with therapy. Potentially maybe.

Richard: 7:27

Well, everything we talk about, well, everything is just related to personal development some way. Because everything is, because it's such a varied topic. Now, before I was a psychotherapist, which is a relatively new thing to me, really. I say that now, it's 2025. It's not that new. Thinking about it, I've been qualified for over seven years now. But I spent 15 years being a hypnotherapist first, which was far more surface level, I guess. People would come into hypnotherapy with lesser complicated issues Some frustrations, some impatience and things like that and goal setting and so on. And we wouldn't really need to do a great deal of, well, let's, let's look at theory work. Let's dig through your childhood and look at how you became you. It was more about solutions, like solution focused therapy, which is great. It's very helpful for a lot of people, but sometimes people would come in and say, I'm just not where I want to be in life. I just need a bit of oomph. And it doesn't take long to have a bit of a chat and go, Oh, well, it seems you're quite overwhelmed with all these different projects you've got on the go. Have you looked at ways to make it easier for yourself? And they haven't. So we can sit there and go, Well, okay, what's going on? And they go, Well, I'm here. Okay, well, let's see what we can do to get you where you want to be. And although I've never been a coach as such, I'm a therapist. But sometimes therapists do have to implement some logistical, almost advice. People say, oh, therapists don't give advice. Yeah, we do. We certainly get, I mean, there's so many different factors going on.

Fiona: 9:12

We certainly get, I mean, there's so many different factors going on in what you're saying because you've got the modality of the therapist. So, if you were a psychoanalytic Psychotherapist, then you probably wouldn't even be talking about goals. Although, I might be corrected on that, but I don't think you would. And if you were a humanistic counsellor, you wouldn't be talking about goals. You'd be, not necessarily digging into the past, but that does tend to be where those people start as to looking for the causes. But yeah, I mean, I, I encourage my supervisees now, to, thinking students as well, but supervisees, to be more well rounded in terms of what they're offering, so that there, there can be elements of coaching within it. I mean, I am a coach and I've had many clients come to me because I do both.

Richard: 10:12

Hmm

Fiona: 10:13

And I also have seen people who are coaches, who don't have an understanding of the therapy process, and human development, etc. Who don't get the fact that you need to understand why somebody is like they are before helping them to change.

Richard: 10:30

Yeah,

Fiona: 10:30

Because you can't change if you don't know why you're where you are.

Richard: 10:33

But a lot of people don't realise that. They think, oh, I just want to learn how to be the best I can be. Well, actually the story of how you became you is really helpful in helping you to recognise why you've not been able to do that before now. Like when somebody wants to, you know, they, they set a New Year's resolution and they go, right, I'll get a, they come to a therapist then in February and go, oh, why couldn't I stick at it Uh, well, why did you choose to do it as a New Year's resolution? Why were you doing it in January? What stopped you in October? Well, I didn't want to do it October. And you want to do it now?

Fiona: 11:11

yeah, that's the thing with new years resolutions. It's sort of put it off until after that Christmas thing so don't have to think about it at all because it's going to be after that Christmas thing. And then it gets there and, yeah. So, I think I can summarise the way that we work, and this includes in Evolve to Thrive is a rounded thing with understanding where you are and then how to get to where you want to be. It's both. One without the other don't work.

Richard: 11:41

No, it really doesn't. Because if somebody's got a lot of overwhelm, I mean, I can sit in that box. I've got a lot on the go. And when we connected today and you said, How are you? I thought, how am I? Yeah, a little overwhelmed. I've got a lot of projects on the go. And, um, I'll use the analogy I use, which is I've, got a lot of tabs open. A lot. There was such a strange experience a couple of weeks ago, Fiona. My Safari crashed. Maybe I closed it by accident. I don't know. But I lost all of my tabs. Things that I've had, for months and years, maybe. it does happen. And I, I click on a button that says restore the windows from a previous session. There was about 50 tabs, which is my to do list. They're all gone! I even tried to use the time machine in my Mac to get it back, and I just couldn't get the tabs back, and I'm like, they've been there for a year, minimum. These are really important things. To me, well, I thought they were really important things. Well, if they were that important, why are they still there? Why haven't I been able to close them

Fiona: 12:56

I've, I've had, it's it's really disconcerting, isn't it I've actually found that when that's happened to me, I've, I've thought, actually this is a good'cause it enables me to a reset. But a year. Goodness. No. Oh, crikey. So you were clearly demonstrating the need for a system to

Richard: 13:16

Yes. I'm looking forward to today's episode. To get a system, to learn a system.

Fiona: 13:20

I do this as well, and I'm just back from holiday, and I sort of tried to close down my tabs before, mentally, and just ignore them whilst I was away. But now that I've come back, I need to get clear in my head as to what the tabs are, because I've lost it a bit.

Richard: 13:38

yeah, that happens.

Fiona: 13:40

So the system that we're going to be talking about is the work of a chap called David Allen. Not Dave Allen the wonderful Irish comedian

Richard: 13:50

He was good, wasn't he?

Fiona: 13:51

of latter years. Oh, he was so funny.

Richard: 13:53

Really enjoyed Dave Allen's stuff.

Fiona: 13:55

If any listeners have not heard of him, put him into YouTube, Dave Allen, and you can have a little giggle.

Richard: 14:03

But if you put David Allen in, you'll get somebody else.

Fiona: 14:06

Yes, this David Allen wrote a book in 2001 called Getting Things Done Fast, still in print, and there are follow ups and you can get whole systems on it. I had a cassette tape version of his course back in the day,

Richard: 14:24

ooh,

Fiona: 14:25

reason I'm saying that is, one, if it interests anybody who's listening you can delve into this some more, but also the caveat that we're only just touching on the surface of the topic today. But the basics of what he lays out is to divide your life into projects. So everything that you do in your life is a project. So, just having come back from holiday, I have got a project still outstanding of doing the washing. And putting my suitcases away. What other projects have I got? I've got, I've got to buy Christmas presents because I left it until too late because I went away. And

Richard: 15:07

I've, at the time of

Fiona: 15:08

recording, it's not quite Christmas, but I am definitely behind on that project. I've got a project of putting the Christmas tree up and it's in the shed and I really can't be bothered. and I've got a project of planning meals for Christmas time and who's going to be here when what. So those are sort of life projects and then you have your work projects. So for me I've got all the stuff to do with Evolve to Thrive. I've got each supervisee and clients and they're all individual projects. I've got the stuff I do for the Bridge Club, that's another project. So there's all these different projects and so each one is labelled as such. And then, what you do is for each one, you have your next action.

Richard: 15:57

Right.

Fiona: 15:58

So you know what the next thing that you need to do for each project. For my project of putting the suitcases away, the first step is to empty them. Next step for the washing is gather it all together and find a time when I can do it because my washing machine's in the bit with the Ukrainians. So, complicated life I live having to schedule my washing. So, the idea is that you always know where you are with all your projects because you know what to do next. And then the feeling of overwhelm lessens because you have that clarity, how does that feel for you with your tabs?

Richard: 16:41

I think it's important that I get things out of my head, so that the things I'm putting together for Evolve to Thrive, the website, and the things that I do for my Patreon podcast, and things I do for my public episodes, they are in my head. I'm not practicing what I preach. And I do remember one of my very first Patreon podcast episodes, I think I did a project stuff, I think I read that book, and made some episodes based on it. didn't practice what I preach. And a lot of people did reply and email me and say, oh, that's really, really useful. That's a really useful process to go through. Thank you very much for this advice. That's great. Well, I need to practice what I preach because too much is in my head. Absolutely. And although I like my head, I like the chaos. It keeps me energised and full of adrenaline. I don't want to live there. It's not a good thing.

Fiona: 17:36

I know what you mean. I like it as well. I like to have the sort of buzziness that goes along with having it in your head. But I tend to go back to this system when I find that things are falling out of my head and I'm forgetting to do something that I know it's important but it didn't get the prioritisation that it needed. And then I go back to this way of thinking. So it does depend on the, the phase of life. So, you know, when I was away, I wasn't thinking of the, the projects of get the sunbeds. I wasn't thinking, oh, that's a project, the next action is No. and When I've got my action sorted for Christmas, I won't be thinking of it in those terms, but to get that clarity, to reduce that feeling of overwhelm, it works.

Richard: 18:33

And that starts by identifying it. It starts by identifying what those tasks are and where they belong. Are they urgent, I guess? Whether they need action right now, or whether it's a future action that can be dealt with then, but it doesn't have to be dealt with right now. And it can go in a different folder, a different to do list or something like that. And then as long as we review it. From what I remember of If my memory serves me correct, um, you review it once a week, or once a month, or whatever is right.

Fiona: 19:08

There's things in there about reviews. I think there's different ideas that you can choose that work for you. So one of the things is if you've got a standard working week, so the last thing to do on a Friday is to sort out your list of action points for next week so that you've not got the weekend with that all running around in the brain, that you know what those are. So don't do it first thing on the Monday, do it last thing on the Friday. And then you've got that clarity thing that I keep going on about.

Richard: 19:41

There was a phrase in the book, from what I remember, and maybe we should, make it a little quote and put it onto the Therapy Natters Instagram page. I'm sure it was David Allen that said this. Your mind is for creating ideas, not holding them. And separating your life out of your head and putting it somewhere where it belongs. This is the 21st century. We could be driving that down the road and I, I do this, I'm driving down the road and I have an idea about a little video I want to make for social media. And I'll say, Hey. Make a note. What would you like the note to say? I'll make a note. And it's whatever popped into my head so I don't have to drive down the street trying to remember. Must remember that. Must remember that. Can I concentrate on driving? I don't want to remember that.

Fiona: 20:28

Absolutely, and the number of times I say to people, Did you put that in your calendar?

Richard: 20:33

Ah.

Fiona: 20:34

No. I thought remember. Hmm. Well, I don't know about you, but I don't remember so many things if I don't put them in my calendar. And I, I mean, I always think I will, but I know enough now to know that, No, I don't. I don't.

Richard: 20:51

Just because it's important, just because that event or that person is important, doesn't mean you're going to remember it. don't set yourself up to fail.

Fiona: 20:59

Exactly, use the technology that we have, rather than relying on the fallible brain. I've had this as well I'm sure, from what, the way you've spoken I think you do. Plenty of people will. Sort of, almost feeling like they're failing if they aren't holding it in their heads. that, it's a weakness if I'm not holding it. And I'm strong enough and I've got a good enough mind to remember all these facts. I know where everybody's birthday is and I will not forget. Oh, that's silly. But I have done it.

Richard: 21:33

I've been involved in amateur dramatics for twenty odd years, and often. Eh, it's not happened with me yet, but it might do now that I'm nearly 50, but certainly with some friends, they'll say. Uh, there's just this one scene, I just can't quite get in my head, I just can't quite get it. There's this one little speech that I can't remember, and all these other things I can, but this one I just can't quite get, and right at the start of the rehearsals they go, I'm struggling with that bit, so they'll say to the director, can I just leave a little bit of script on the table in front of me, and I can just glance at it, and they go, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine for rehearsals, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll trust that you'll get it in. Three months later, that one little bit, they still can't get in their head, and they can't get it in their head because their brain is smart enough to know it doesn't need to be there, I don't need this to be in my head, it's written down in front of me. Oh, so why can't I get this little bit? I'm just stuck on that bit. Yeah, that's why, because you've got it written down in front of you, and you don't need to remember it. Your brain's efficient. It's doing what it's supposed to do.

Fiona: 22:38

And that takes me back to the idea of that writing the list on a Friday afternoon, and sort of extending it to what you're saying, is, if there are things in your head that are causing trouble, if you're worrying about things,

Richard: 22:50

write them down,

Fiona: 22:51

write them down, then you know that they're safe, and you're not going to forget them. and then they don't need to be in your head anymore.

Richard: 23:00

Am I right in thinking that David Allen's idea was to try and turn every worry you've got into a task? So it could be, well, I'm worried about the state of the house. Okay. Well, there's a task there about talk to John the handyman about the roof or whatever it is

Fiona: 23:20

You can see the corner of my ceiling, can you, from there?

Richard: 23:23

What and why have you got a hole.

Fiona: 23:25

Yeah, there's a big hole up there.

Richard: 23:27

Oh this is not the right time of year to have a hole in your ceiling

Fiona: 23:29

No. Tell my builder that. Anyway. I've tried using this technique with my builder. Can we have the next steps, please? But it doesn't work. I know it will get there eventually, but things are just ticking along. But, for some people, the things in their work life will be the easy bits and things in their home life will be the difficult bits. And some of those projects that you're working on, in either context, will not be just sole projects. You'll be working with teams. Whether that's a literal team, as in a group of people working towards the same project at work, or a husband and wife working towards, a goal of building a home and a family, or friends working towards some sort of project. You've got all sorts of combinations of teams, and so projects are not all solo. So you need to get that cooperation to work together

Richard: 24:31

I think it's important for people to realise that they don't need to know how to do everything. We just need to know where to go for help. We don't have to be an electrician and a plasterer and an accountant We just need to know if I need those services, who do I go to? And then you can get it out of your head because then you're not worrying about, Well, I'm not an electrician and there's electrical work that needs to be done. Do you know where to go? If you, if you need that work doing, do you know where to go? Yes. Great. Pay attention to that. That's the same for everything.

Fiona: 25:12

I was doing a thing I might have mentioned it before but with the entrepreneur's circle. And one of the things they said there is that an entrepreneur tends to be a bit of a jack of all trades. They have to do the marketing. They have to do the actual thing that they're doing. They have to do the accounts. They have to do the tech. They have to, you know, create the website. They have to do the social media. They tend to be the one who does everything.

Richard: 25:39

Yeah, tell us about it,

Fiona: 25:40

and many people, even if they're not in that, would label themselves as an entrepreneur, they're likely to have that sort of role in a job because they could be the person where the buck stops. And learning to delegate is really important if you can. But then of course there's problems with delegation in that it costs money. people often think, oh, well I'll do it.

Richard: 26:04

Yeah, but you might find that in some areas you could earn money doing the thing that earns you money.

Fiona: 26:10

Yes. And paying somebody, yeah, so I mean accounts I think is a really good example of that. That paying somebody to do your bookkeeping would likely save you time that you can put into your own business where you would earn more money than you're paying the bookkeeper.

Richard: 26:29

Yeah, I've actually been thinking about that these last couple of weeks because I still haven't done my tax return. Now, I could have started it in April. But, but I didn't. I put a comedy post on Blue Sky, because I've given up on Twitter. It's an absolute poisonous rat's nest so I moved over to Blue Sky. And I put a thing on there the other day that said, Oh, I've just realised I haven't done my tax return, but, Oh, would you believe it? It's been a long time since I bleached the bathroom. So I bleached the bathroom. It wasn't a joke. Well, it was a joke. Well, I was trying to be funny. But it was true. I then went and bleached the bathroom rather than start on my tax return. And I did start it, and actually it's not that complicated, but I still haven't finished it. But I've got until the end of January. But I know that on the 29th I'll be pulling my hair out.

Fiona: 27:17

That's why you haven't got Yeah. but I think this goes back to what you were saying earlier about recognising the importance of tasks.. But also, not only the importance, but the size of them. I wonder if we've ever mentioned the book Eat That Frog on the podcast? I don't remember if we have, but we might have done.

Richard: 27:43

We might have done. You know, we've had

Fiona: 27:44

It's quite, quite likely, but the basic premise of that, which it's a book by Brian Tracy, the basic premise is if the main thing you have to do today is eat a frog. Then just eat it. First thing in the morning, eat your frog, then you're done.

Richard: 28:02

Because everything else that day then tastes better.

Fiona: 28:05

Yes, it's over with. So it's a metaphor, of course, The other thing to think about with this is that a human tendency to think that something, the frog that you've got to eat is actually a big juicy toad, but when you do eat it, it turns out to be a little tadpole. And this is why this popped into my mind when you were talking about your tax return, because I rather suspect it's actually a tadpole.

Richard: 28:30

Oh yeah, I did sit down that afternoon to do a little bit of it. I got 90 percent of the way through it, to be honest, in probably no time at all. I could have done it in April. I don't know what I was thinking.

Fiona: 28:43

Okay, we're not getting into the therapy mode, but the question would be, so, what stopped you doing the 10%? Although I wouldn't phrase it quite like that, but,

Richard: 28:50

Well, urgency.

Fiona: 28:53

Things

Richard: 28:53

Other things are more urgent,

Fiona: 28:54

yes.

Richard: 28:55

And that's the important thing. If there are things that are urgent, there needs to be a folder on your computer or a document somewhere that says. These are the urgent things, and you only put the urgent things in there. If there are things that can wait, you have another folder for those things. Things that can wait, and you check, you review, often maybe on a Friday afternoon, you check it. Does anything on that list need to be moved into urgent? Because if so, then do it. But it means that you're in control of your life.

Fiona: 29:26

And there needs to be a realism in terms of urgent, because again, I mean, I know I'm very likely to think that something's urgent just because I want to do it, and things that really are urgent can be discounted and not given the priority. So. we have to be honest with ourselves about these tasks and their priorities.

Richard: 29:50

Yes, now this is a topic that I think will be quite useful for a lot of people and I do urge you to take it seriously and if there's more that you want to go into, take a look into David Allen's ideas. Get a copy of his book, read a synopsis somewhere.

Fiona: 30:07

Yeah, there's, there's obviously, there's,

Richard: 30:08

probably even got a podcast about it

Fiona: 30:10

and there's, there's, there's obviously all sorts of stuff on the internet, and in Evolve to Thrive, we have the forms that you can use to create your projects based on your goals that we've talked about the last couple of weeks and then to formulate your next steps, your actions.

Richard: 30:28

Excellent! Now we'll be talking about next steps next week, won't we?

Fiona: 30:33

I can't remember but it's written down

Richard: 30:37

Exactly! We've written down a schedule.

Fiona: 30:39

It's written down so we don't have it in our heads because we wrote it down. So it'll be a nice surprise. It'll probably, hopefully a nice surprise,

Richard: 30:50

By the way, if anybody has a question they'd like us to answer and incorporate into the podcast series. Of course, please do let us know. There are links splattered all in the show description. In the episode notes, you can WhatsApp us. There's a phone number there for you to WhatsApp us on that we can reply to you at. There's an anonymous text one if you just want to send us an anonymous SMS message. You can email us through the website anonymously as well, if you don't want to put your name and give us your contact details. That's absolutely fine, of course. And if you've got any ideas that you'd like us to share with the world, feel free. Do let us know. So, have a super week, everybody. If you need anything, you know where we are. Take care you. Bye!

Fiona: 31:35

Bye!