Cognitive Distortions

This week Richard & Fiona talk all about Cognitive Distortions, the thinking traps that we all fall into that can so easily spoil our lives or at best hold us back.

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Transcript

Richard: 0:10

Hello there, you fantastic folk! It's Therapy Natter's time again! Each week, Fiona Biddle and myself, who are psychotherapists on a mission, sit down and have a little natter about something to do with mental health, psychology, and what it is to be human in a mixed up, muddled up, shook up world that seems to make no sense at all, because there's no instruction manual that came with it when we came out! Unless, unless this is the instruction manual? Is therapy the instruction manual? Kind of. Kind of. It's the closest we've got, I think. That and sort of self help pop psychology. Although I'm a bit wary of some of that.

Fiona: 0:51

Yes, absolutely. Hello, everybody. It's, I think there are plenty of self help books where you don't really need to go deeper than the title. I think we've probably said that before, you know, the sort of one, one idea books. As to a manual, Well, I mean, I've certainly learned an awful lot about the human condition from my therapy training and experience of being a client as well as working with clients, because our clients teach us as well.

Richard: 1:23

Mmm. Mmm.

Fiona: 1:24

in a sense, this is what we're trying to do here and with our next project. Trying to enable people to get some of these insights that can be helpful In living.

Richard: 1:38

And every body needs something... Different, I suppose. And that's why, when people try to write self help books, and I wrote a, is it a self help book? I guess it is a self help book, isn't it? My, my

Fiona: 1:51

And it has more than one idea.

Richard: 1:54

Oh, goodness, yes! I

Fiona: 1:56

It has lots of

Richard: 1:57

Full of stuff! There's lots of ideas! Feel free, if you haven't already, bought a copy of my book, it's there on all the good bookshops, all the bad ones, all the ones that do pay tax, and all the ones that don't, but try and find a company that does pay tax and buy it off them. I still get my 5p, or whatever it is, wherever you buy it. So, yeah, everybody needs something different, and, and that's why... You can't just read one blog article that's got the 10 tips for depression or 10 tips to cure your anxiety. I hate that word cure. You see it all over the place. TikTok is terrible for it. I started a TikTok channel because everybody says you're supposed to nowadays if you make online content. I'm like, oh, okay. I'll edit some of my little videos down and stick them on TikTok. And the stuff that pops up of people giving psychological advice and stuff like that, they're nonsense! Absolute nonsense! Some of them, it's just... genuinely made up. If anybody, if anybody sees anything on, on YouTube even, or certainly TikTok, that says Psychology says that, and then it's just somebody having a ramble. Check, check your sources. for citations. Because there probably aren't any. I can't think of any examples right now, but just question it if you see something that says, psychology says, unless that person is a psychologist, or at best, a psychotherapist, who has been researching and reading all about psychology. But even us therapists, we fall into the same traps that everybody does, because we've got a brain as well. I've met therapists who fall for,

Fiona: 3:45

scams?

Richard: 3:46

Yeah, conspiracy theories. People fall for them, and that's been going on for generations. Clever, sane, very smart people would be conned by cult leaders. Hey, it happened in the 60s. Well, no, it was the fifties. Where there was that. Um, the alien abduction thing. Oh, do you not know about that one?

Fiona: 4:09

I mean, I know about it as a phenomenon, but are you talking about a particular one?

Richard: 4:14

Yeah, a particular one where there was a cult that said this is the day that the aliens are going to rescue us, we've known about it for years, everybody sell all their belongings, come into this field, and, and wait, and the aliens are going to come, and then when the aliens didn't come... They had to try and find a reason to explain why the aliens didn't come, but rather than change their beliefs, which was the aliens are real and this, this religion exists where the aliens will save us, they had to find a reason to explain why they still believed in these aliens, but the aliens didn't come. Well, it must be because... We don't need saving anymore, because we prayed so hard to the aliens, that now we've saved the world. Hurrah! We've saved the world! And they carried on with their beliefs about the aliens, and this strange cult, this strange religion, rather than admit, oh, no, we were, we were wrong. The aliens don't exist after all, and nobody was ever going to come and save us. Because nobody likes to think that they were wrong. Even the really smart people don't like to think that they're wrong and can dig deep into their beliefs, even if those beliefs are wrong. Hey, what a segue! That happened by accident, unless my unconscious just came up with that, because today

Fiona: 5:32

yeah. Today,

Richard: 5:34

we're going to talk about cognitive distortions. Do you have a favorite? Oh, actually, should we explain, Fiona? Explain what is a cognitive distortion?

Fiona: 5:43

I think we should. As in, I think you should. I've got some specific, I've got some specific examples of sort of theoretical ways to talk about them, but you go for the general one.

Richard: 5:57

It's exactly how it sounds, a cognitive distortion, where your cognition, your thinking, is distorted. Your thinking is wrong. Even though it feels like your thinking makes sense, because you're basing maybe your thinking on your emotions. rather than actual thought. So you might feel that everybody's talking about you, that's paranoia, so then you will think that everybody's talking about you. So when you see somebody laughing about something in a, in a group, it feels that they must be laughing at you. They're talking about you. That's a cognitive distortion. And that would be, I think, personalization, I guess. You get all these phrases, all this terminology over the decades that people talk about. The most common one that I think people would recognize is the black or white thinking, dichotomous thinking, or polarized thinking, sometimes that's called, where there's no gray area to stuff. Things are either good or bad. Perfect or broken. I'm a success or I'm a failure. There's no in between, when actually, there is in betweens. Of course there's in betweens, but it feels that there isn't for some reason. That's a cognitive distortion. Quite a common one. Probably the most common, I think, that probably pops up in therapy.

Fiona: 7:21

Yes, is it the most, it's one of the most common ones that becomes apparent, because I think quite a lot of cognitive distortions are subtle and go on in the background without being highlighted, without being noticed.

Richard: 7:38

Mm hmm.

Fiona: 7:39

So, yeah, I mean, I, I think It's a, it's a common one for, in supervision lots of people will say, Oh, this, this client's a black and white thinker, and we know what that means. And we know it's sort of not really terribly helpful for them in most circumstances to view the world in that way. But I'm, I'm not sure if it's the most common, because one of the ones is from... Adler, which he just called private logic, which is simply the things that you think are rules of the world that aren't necessarily other people's rules of the world. Almost by definition, everybody will have their own private logic, so therefore that must be the most common.

Richard: 8:23

Because it does feel that our world is THE world. How many times do people say, I just, I just don't understand why they did that? Well, because everybody does different things. Why do they think that? Why did they say that? Well, because it seemed not the right thing to say at the time. But I wouldn't say that. Well, you're not them. And that's okay. But it doesn't always feel okay. It's quite jarring if our expectations aren't met. Because what we put out there that says these are the rules, not realising that it's a private rule. It's your rule as to how you're supposed to eat with your knife in one hand and your fork in the other. How about people do whatever feels right? But people used to get slapped around the back of their head at school for having the knife and fork in the wrong hand. My wife Dawn eats with the knife and fork in the opposing hands to the cultural norm for a right handed woman. She'd have been slapped around the back of the head if she was a generation younger, and tried to be taught how to do it properly. Them's the rules. What? Doesn't make sense.

Fiona: 9:30

Does, does she have a reason? For that, private

Richard: 9:35

right.

Fiona: 9:35

just feels right,

Richard: 9:37

It just feels right. Maybe that's just the way her brain's wired, that she's right handed, but there are some things... Well, it's worth questioning that, because when you think about it, if your dominant hand is your right hand, having said that, no, still, if your dominant hand is your right hand, that's the one that does the cutting, not the holding. But she's not left handed. Maybe she's ambidextrous. I'll have to ask. 27 years of being with somebody, you'd think I'd know by now. But

Fiona: 10:07

but it's not, this is, this is a good example of, of where these things can be very subtle and they don't come to the fore. I'm really, I'm not suggesting for a moment that this is a problem. Oh gosh, we haven't said that phrase of something's only a problem if it causes a problem for weeks. For weeks

Richard: 10:25

I say it in the therapy room every week, but I've not it on here for a while, but yeah, yeah,

Fiona: 10:29

but, so, not thinking that this is a problem, but it's a good example of something that I think most people would say we don't tend to think about, we just do it. So, is it purely cultural? If, is it just something that has developed as this is the way it is done, and that is therefore the way we are taught? Cos in America they don't eat with a knife and fork like we do?

Richard: 10:58

Really?

Fiona: 11:00

When I was a teenager we had some Canadian visitors and these Canadians complimented me and my brother on the way we were eating, and we sort of looked at them as, what on earth do you mean?

Richard: 11:16

That's interesting.

Fiona: 11:17

eats like this, but they don't. As a general rule

Richard: 11:24

mmm. It is, I mean, it's something that I, the knife and fork thing is something I talk about in therapy from time to time, because it is a little bit weird. Because, it, well, certainly in the UK, didn't realise it didn't cross cultures in the same way, that, If you're right handed, you've got your fork in your left hand and your knife in your right. You stab the whatever it is with your left hand fork, cut it with your right hand knife, stick it in your mouth. But if you only needed a fork,

Fiona: 11:53

With your,

Richard: 11:53

yeah, with your left hand, even though it's non dominant. And yeah, that kind of makes no sense, but that is just what we do. But if you only needed a fork, ah, yeah. Yeah,

Fiona: 12:06

why you have to eat your peas off the back of a fork?

Richard: 12:10

Oh, do people still do that? I don't do that.

Fiona: 12:14

I would if I was in company, I wouldn't if I was on my own.

Richard: 12:18

really? What, you'd squash the peas onto the back of the fork?

Fiona: 12:21

I didn't have to squash them. They, they,

Richard: 12:24

The back of the fork? Eating peas off the back of the fork?

Fiona: 12:30

Yeah, but then that's, that's just how I was, I had to.

Richard: 12:35

And them's the rules.

Fiona: 12:36

allowed to do it any other way. So, maybe there's actually a little, little rebellious streak in me now, because if I, if I'm eating a meal on my own, then it would be pretty rare that I would have a knife and fork, with me whilst I'm sitting in front of the TV eating a meal. I did last night, because I had a quarter duck,

Richard: 12:56

Hmm,

Fiona: 12:57

a duck leg thing, so I did then, but very often, almost always I just use a fork,

Richard: 13:03

that's

Fiona: 13:04

in company I would do it

Richard: 13:05

your world. You don't use a knife if you're sitting on your own.

Fiona: 13:09

No, because it might be a little rebellious bit. So, this is private logic. This is private logic of... I don't really need to do it that way, and I'm going to show the world that I can do it without. Except that I'm not showing the world, I'm just doing it for myself.

Richard: 13:25

Cognitive distortions, there's that phrase, are only a problem if they cause problems. It isn't a problem to have your own private logic. It isn't a problem to have black or white thinking. Unless it causes problems. And some of them, some of them will. Some of them do cause problems. Especially in relationships. Because a lot of these things do revolve around how we interact with the world. It's not just going on inside our head. It's our reactions to the world. And what those, what that information that we've just been sent via our eyes or ears or whatever means. The meaning behind it all. That's what gets distorted.

Fiona: 14:08

There's a, a label that some cognitive distortions are given in NLP, Neuro Linguistic Programming. Which fits this nicely in that sometimes they're a problem, that actually sometimes you can use them specifically for a benefit. And the, the term, I mean, NLP, ooh, most, not all, most psychotherapies have strange vernacular, but this one is complex equivalents. Basically meaning that the mind links two things together and says that they are the same when they're not or there is no evidence that they are. I use this quite a bit when working with clients with eating issues, so that could be a useful way to give some examples of complex equivalents. So, one is, I'm going to the cinema, therefore I will have popcorn. It's not written down anywhere as a rule. They will let you into the cinema into your seat without the popcorn. But so many people have that as a rule. One thing equals another. I'm in an Indian restaurant, therefore I have to have poppadoms, and I have to have pilau rice and I have to have naan bread. The other bits, maybe they can vary, maybe they don't. But, there's nothing that says anywhere that you have to have pilau rice and a naan bread.

Richard: 15:37

Mmm.

Fiona: 15:37

And you don't have to have two poppadoms, you could have one. Or even you could share

Richard: 15:41

could have none.

Fiona: 15:43

You could have none,

Richard: 15:44

I'm not sure I could.

Fiona: 15:45

one.

Richard: 15:47

I think I'd feel like I was missing out if I didn't have at least one poppadum.

Fiona: 15:50

yes, well, at least half a poppadum.

Richard: 15:52

But it doesn't mean you have to finish all of your meal. You can leave some. Did you know that? A lot of people go, of course you can't. Yes, you can. There's

Fiona: 16:02

again, that is, again, I'm, if I go back to my primary school days, that was a rule. You had to eat it all. You would, you would sit there until it was all gone.

Richard: 16:12

Well, you can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat.

Fiona: 16:15

I even found myself saying that to my Ukrainian boy.

Richard: 16:18

You can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?

Fiona: 16:20

Yes but as I was saying it, I thought, oh gosh, what am I doing? But I, I did think actually, he was just faffing around with his main course, and it would be a good idea for him to eat a bit of it. Rather than go straight on to pudding. So I didn't, correct myself, but I haven't said it again. But it was interesting that that came up. So, you know, that's, that is the rule that sometimes people do put into practice. But again, it's just a human rule. And you can understand if, I was at primary school in the 60s. It's not that long after the war where people were rationed.

Richard: 17:00

Mm. Yeah, rationing didn't stop until... 57?

Fiona: 17:05

four, I thought.

Richard: 17:07

Or was it? so, that's not that

Fiona: 17:09

Yeah, that's, that's only seven years before I was born. So

Richard: 17:12

Yeah.

Fiona: 17:14

yeah, it's no,

Richard: 17:14

years ago, what were we doing in... 20...

Fiona: 17:18

years ago from now, it's yesterday.

Richard: 17:20

Yeah, I've still got albums I've not listened to all the way through. That I bought that year, you know? Those rules that says... This is what you have to do. It doesn't take long for them to become part of the next generation. And those rules still apply, but they can be challenged.

Fiona: 17:39

So yeah, so

Richard: 17:40

can be challenged.

Fiona: 17:41

that's the thing. So there was you can use it things like two people going into a difficult meeting, and one says to the other, oh you look really relaxed, and internally they think, well he looks really relaxed, therefore he doesn't care. So they've made an interpretation based on one piece of information. So that's an internal complex equivalent, so the other person doesn't know unless the one says it, says, oh so don't you care? Then it could be challenged, but otherwise it would just go unnoticed, but they would be on different pages in the meeting.

Richard: 18:17

Yeah. And if in that meeting the boss says, um, really wanna make sure that next month everybody hits their targets, that's really important to the company. That's about people hitting their targets and it being important to the company. But if somebody takes that personally, which is a cognitive distortion, they might think that boss is talking to me, because I didn't hit my target this month, and so that boss, they are talking to me, and only me, it's all about me, and then the meaning behind that is, I'm no good at this job, I might as well just look for another one, or just be resigned to the fact that I'm going to get made redundant at Christmas, or whatever, when actually... That boss wasn't even thinking about that person at all. It's just a general statement that targets need to be met. That's all. But it's the meaning behind that experience that can get distorted in the brain. The only way to override that is to be aware that we make these mistakes. We have these distortions and challenge them.

Fiona: 19:18

And to, to question our own... Assumptions and presumptions. Another example might be let's say you're in a shop and the shop assistant is rude to you. and you feel put out by their rudeness. So what does that mean? And different people will have different default responses to the meaning of that. Some people would say, well that's a rude person. Other people might say, I must have done something wrong for them to have been rude to me. But perhaps that person has just had some really bad news, or they're in pain, or they're feeling unwell. There can be all sorts of possibilities.

Richard: 20:03

Absolutely, that happened to me. I'll, I'll, I shall disclose this. Because I wrote about this in, in my book. And I didn't say in the book that it was, that it was me, I just said, I know of a man. It

Fiona: 20:17

my friend John. Well,

Richard: 20:21

But this one was me. And it was, it was, I think I was going through a bit of a, a tough time in my head. And when Dawn would go to work, because I didn't have a job, I just started being self employed and I was all on my own and maybe it was a bit overwhelming. And I'd go to kiss her goodbye as she went to work, and she'd turn her head away. I'd go to kiss her on the lips, it's a little peck, and she'd turn her head away. And I'd have to end up kissing her on the cheek, and she'd get into a car and go. And I'd be like, oh, she doesn't want to kiss me. I'm useless. I'm a rubbish husband. I know why this is. It's because we've not got much money in the bank. It's because I've taken this big risk of being self employed. That was the meaning behind it. But the real reason was she didn't want me to smudge her lipstick. Which makes obvious sense when you challenge it. But I didn't challenge that for... For ten years? Ten years. Every day. Every day for ten years thinking, she doesn't want me to kiss her. She's not really into me after all. Ten years. Jeez. Anyhow,

Fiona: 21:22

I'm glad you did challenge it in the end.

Richard: 21:24

Took me a while, but yeah.

Fiona: 21:25

yeah. Ellis. What's Ellis first name? Albert. Albert Ellis, the founder of Rational Emotive Behaviour Therapy, Rebt, that's an awful lot easier to say

Richard: 21:42

Well, it eventually became CBT once

Fiona: 21:45

yes, he's, he's one with the other one, Beck,

Richard: 21:49

Aaron Beck, yeah.

Fiona: 21:51

so, the two of them Their work sort of merged to become CBT. Ellis has had a different phrase for the same sort of process as the complex equivalents, which is a much catchier name. He referred to sane and insane sentences. Now, any therapists who are listening, you need to introduce this gently with clients so that you're not, they don't think you're telling them that they are

Richard: 22:20

insane.

Fiona: 22:22

But I find it quite useful because it is catchy and you remember that much more easily than complex equivalents, which is a bleh bleh bleh sound. But it's the same sort of principle that the first thing you say is a sane sentence. For example, I got upset during my annual appraisal today.

Richard: 22:45

That's the truth.

Fiona: 22:46

That's what happened. The second part is the insane sentence, which is something like, So my boss will see me as weak. Now, that person who's saying that might have more evidence than that, but just from an outside perspective, we have no idea whether the boss would perceive that as weak or not. If I was the boss, and one of my employees was upset during their appraisal, I wouldn't see them as weak, but some people would.

Richard: 23:18

Yeah, some

Fiona: 23:19

it as, yeah, that shows some strength that they're able to express it, and what's going on for them, and so on. But some people would see tears as a weakness, so we don't have enough information. If we change it to, I was upset during my annual appraisal. Same first part. Second part. That means I'm weak. Then we do have enough information. It doesn't. That's, that's, so that's where the insane bit comes from. It's, it's an illogical connection. And so, if, go back to your example of Your wife not wanting to kiss you, that's what you were doing.

Richard: 24:04

Yep.

Fiona: 24:05

You were insane for 10 years.

Richard: 24:08

Yep. I've had a lot of therapy since.

Fiona: 24:13

But then it can become funny. You know, of course you weren't insane, but it was an insane sentence in this context. So,

Richard: 24:21

bit like, just thinking of the, the, the, a common one that gets talked about in CBT and REBT is the meaning behind stuff that we put in the middle. My boss shouts at me, therefore I am a bad worker, I'm gonna get sacked. As opposed to, my boss shouts at me, They've had a bad day. The meaning in the middle creates then a different reaction. Because if you can highlight that bit in the middle, my boss is having a bad day, what's the feeling about my boss is having a bad day? Well, there isn't one. But there's a feeling about, I'm not a good enough employee. There's a feeling associated to that. That the crazy thinking, the insane thoughts, the insane thinking is just created with no evidence whatsoever. And it might take five minutes to challenge your thoughts and go, Is there something else that I could think instead? That doesn't cause me a problem. Can I look for evidence of something else instead? Very CBT. What starts off as taking five minutes, with practice becomes four minutes, with more practice becomes three minutes, with eventual practice becomes almost instant that they're having a bad day. Wonder what's going on for them today? Might be nothing to do with me. Maybe personalisation as well. They're in a bad mood. This is my fault. They're shouting at me. It's because of me! Often not. Of course.

Fiona: 25:48

this sort of idea can be very helpful to consider in relationships as well. Particularly, What came to mind for me then was the world of dating. As it is these days perhaps it always was to a degree, but with online dating, you know, the rejections that you can get

Richard: 26:10

You'd get a hundred rejections a day, couldn't you? Easily. And the meaning behind that is... They... I'm

Fiona: 26:19

you've,

Richard: 26:20

I'm not interesting to them. Why you don't know?

Fiona: 26:22

absolutely no idea

Richard: 26:24

There shouldn't be any meaning Yeah. It could be they want to close their account down. They don't want to say yes to anybody. It could

Fiona: 26:30

Or they found somebody else, or they don't like people with your hair colour, or they're so, in my private logic, daft enough to pay attention to your star sign, which is often something you put into your online

Richard: 26:47

Wow.

Fiona: 26:49

could be just millions of reasons, and I will speak personally here, it's very easy to get into that. Why? What's wrong with me? Place. I recently had a guy from an online platform ask me to go on a date, and it just never happened. So I was going through all sorts of imagining as to, well, what did I do wrong? What did I do wrong? Not for very long, because I stopped myself, because I caught what I was doing, which is that I have absolutely no idea if I was doing anything wrong. And even if I was, it probably was something that I would do wrong again, because it's probably part of me.

Richard: 27:29

Yeah. But it's not wrong, that's the thing.

Fiona: 27:31

so it's wrong in their mind. So

Richard: 27:34

Yeah.

Fiona: 27:35

it just went. I got to the point of just saying, oh, well, I just dunno. But what I've heard from quite a lot of people is that this is intolerable. That the, not knowing the ghosting that goes on those sorts of things are too much. so it can be really, really helpful to see it in these terms.

Richard: 27:58

Yeah, absolutely. So many times there is some sort of unrequited... Affection. Where people, they get to know somebody and they think there's a bit of a spark, and maybe at first there is a bit of a spark between you and somebody that you work with, for example, and the two of you are both single. And there's a bit of a spark here, and there's maybe a little bit of cuddling, a little bit of smooching, but it doesn't go anywhere. And one of them says, yeah, it's just a bit of fun, I don't want to see anybody in it, I'm happy being single. And then three months later, that person's met somebody else and they're in a relationship. Well, hang on a minute, you said three months ago to me, you wanted to be single. they changed their mind. No, they didn't change their mind about me. Well, the meaning behind that is nothing to do with you, when that happens. That's not about you, that's about them. And what somebody thinks and feels, and who they fall for, who they find attractive... That's outside of our control. In fact, so much is outside of our control. What somebody thinks of you might be what they think of from somebody from 20 years ago, with a similar name, or with a similar haircut, or lack of it, or a similar accent, or whatever. We have no control over what other people think, and I'm not sure what cognitive distortion that might be to think that we do, that we can Control each other's minds. Mind control.

Fiona: 29:33

Well, I mean, I think the, the, the fact is we. all are the centre of our world. So it seems fairly natural to at least consider one's role in any situation. But there's a difference between considering it and jumping to a conclusion and staying there.

Richard: 29:55

Yeah.

Fiona: 29:56

You know, did I do something? is the boss shouting at me to do with me? Or isn't it? I mean, that could go the other way. The boss could be shouting at you because of

Richard: 30:06

But

Fiona: 30:06

done. And if you go, oh no, see he just shouts at everybody, or he's having a bad day, and don't take responsibility for whatever it was that you did that's causing it, that's problem as the other way around.

Richard: 30:20

Yeah, there's an element of narcissism and arrogance that can cause a problem. There's some elements of narcissism and arrogance which can become confident and great. But... Just as people with, with a lot of insecurity will think that everything is about them, the people that are, people that don't have that for one reason or another, maybe because of similar traumas and their brains went in a different direction as a kid, that went, oh no, no, no, I'm better than everybody else. I've got to be better than everybody else. Because look at how awful I've been neglected as a child. Of course I'm better than everybody else. That's their foundations at six months old. And they carry that with them until they're 46 and go to therapy and go, why does everybody say I'm rude? I don't think I'm rude.

Fiona: 31:01

Actually, I did want to mention something about children in this context. I know I've said... on here before, probably several times, but I'm going to say it again. Being an inconsistent parent is doing your children a favour.

Richard: 31:17

Yeah.

Fiona: 31:19

because they need to learn that they do something one day and they get a particular response. They do the same thing the next day, they get a different response. They are learning to consider the process of this communication and learning not to jump to conclusions. And

Richard: 31:40

Yes.

Fiona: 31:41

if you, as the parent, can talk to them about it and say, Yes, I know that yesterday when you threw that toy, I just laughed and asked you to be more careful in future. And today, when you threw it, I sent you to a time out and got really angry and shouted at you. Yes, I know that's inconsistent, but the reason is... Because of this,

Richard: 32:03

But if that happens when the child has got a decent grasp on what we would call the theory of mind, because they're old enough to go, yeah, other people have a mind of their own and... That's okay. If they're only a few months old, or old enough to feel neglected, but not old enough to understand why, then that can cause a problem. Cognitive dissonance. We were talking earlier on about the alien abduction thing. That's cognitive dissonance, where you can't hold two opposing opinions at the same time in your brain. You've got conflict there. You can't change your beliefs very, very easily, given new evidence. Because you've already got this existing belief that says, but the aliens exist and Earth needs to be rescued by these aliens, because of all the problems that we cause in this world, being so human. You've either got to change that when you see that there's no evidence of aliens doing that, Or will you find another reason to still hold on to the belief, and that's what cognitive dissonance is, to prevent us from holding two opposing opinions at the same time, that they, that aliens both do and don't exist at the same time. Now they have to still exist, so I need another reason why they didn't come and collect me, and it must be because... Actually, when that happened, and it didn't happen at midnight, when it was supposed to according to the scriptures, the first place that everybody's brain went was, oh yeah, wrong time zone. It's midnight here, but it's not midnight... where they're thinking we are yet. So we'll give it an hour. Oh, no, it hasn't. No, no. They're in a different time zone after all. It's, it's, there must be on the other side of the USA coast. So it's, it's there. And then when it didn't happen at all, rather than admit we were wrong, they patted each other on the back and went, we saved the world. We just saved the world with all our thoughts and prayers. We're amazing. And then, went to spread word all about these aliens. Because then, you've got other people to back you up. The more that you can say, Look, here's evidence. Everybody else believes in these aliens, so I must be right. Even if it was you that told them to believe in it. This is how religions start. It's nuts. To a degree.

Fiona: 34:25

yes. I'm hopeful that we will be having an episode with a guest talking about religion

Richard: 34:33

Oh,

Fiona: 34:33

in a few weeks time. So,

Richard: 34:36

Well, I remember somebody I know from social media Dr. Dean Burnett. Great guy. He lectures at Cardiff Uni. Really nice guy. And he's got this phrase, he came on my podcast once to talk about this, and he's got this wonderful little phrase that... to try and explain what it is to be human and to have this strange brain that believes all these odd things, but sometimes it's not odd. That if you, if you say that you've got this, this voice in your head from this all being, all powerful alien called Zod, who is telling you what to do, and is giving you your, your instructions, your moral code, and your, these are the things you have to do, and you've got to obey Zod, and everybody thinks you're crazy. But if you call that character God, if you believe in it hard enough, they put you in charge of it and give you a big hat. And I thought, that's, I love that. Give you a big hat. He also does stand up as well, Dean Burnett. He's a really funny guy, he's ever so nice. Have you seen the time we ought to finish on that topic and we'll pick up on this another time, I'm very sure, because this falls into the category of pretty much everything, these distortions that we do. So, let's disappear. Just a reminder, there's always a link in the show notes, in the description below. Pop onto my website, there's a form on there to fill in. If you've got a question or a topic idea you'd like us to natter about at some point in the future, do let us know. the more the merrier, really. Right, so, love you and leave you, everybody. We'll be back next week. See ya! Bye!

Fiona: 36:07

See you then. Bye.